Hobbling Around the Issues: Homosexuality, Birth Control, etc. and Religion.

Here’s the thing…

A while back, I wrote about my opinions on the existence of God. In that post I explained that although I do believe that God exists, I don’t believe in religion. I’d like to talk for a minute about that.

One of the big issues that people have with religion in general seems to be the judgemental/hypocritical viewpoints that a lot of the “religious” people they know express. I have a problem with that too. The thing is, different religions believe different things right? Not everyone can be right, in theory, only one religious viewpoint could be right. If that is the case, is it that much of a stretch to just think all of the religions are wrong? I have a lot of people in the real world who would strongly disagree with this, but I am entitled to my opinion and I believe that most people base their own religious viewpoint on what their parents, teachers, church, etc. have told them. I like to think for myself.

If God is real, shouldn’t He be able to speak for Himself? Like I said, I believe in God, and He has never told me to hate homosexuality, people who believe differently, etc. In fact, the more I feel like I know about God, the more I feel God is love.

Pure, simple, straightforward love.

I have friends who are gay. I also have friends who are atheists. I have friends who are fat, thin, black, white, whatever. God has never told me to not love the people He puts into my life. No matter what they believe, think, feel, do, are. This is one of the reasons I don’t believe in religion. Religion, no matter what type of religion it is, interprets God in some way, and tells you how you should feel about Him, and what His opinion, on all sorts of issues, is.

The God I believe in is big enough to speak for Himself. He speaks to me in nature. I don’t mean I literally hear God. I can just see Him in the things He made. What I see in the things He made is beauty, diversity, creativity, etc. When I look at a beautiful sunset, I don’t see a sign come out of it that says being gay is wrong. When I watch ants working together, letters don’t appear telling me that ants are the only creature in the world that know what they are talking about. Just because a spider can have lots of eggs doesn’t mean that God is against birth control. In fact, it seems to me that God designed birth control in a way. He’s the one that gave animals an “in heat” time, and He is the one who made it where not every suitor finds a mate. We had a dog that humped a goat one time. If God was against birth control, wouldn’t that have resulted in a pregnancy?

I understand if you feel differently than I do, and I respect that. If God is real, and He made us, He could have made us all believe the same thing, and He chose not to. I think that God likes our differences. I am just so tired of all these arguments in denominations, politics, “faiths”, etc. If God exists, and He wants you to believe in Him, He can make that happen. Regardless of what you believe at the moment. God doesn’t hold a gun to our heads and force us into thinking the way He thinks. He lets us believe in different things. He lets us be different. In fact, I think it goes beyond Him “letting” us do things. I think He loves us and our differences.

Sorry for the rant, I just was thinking about it, and since no one stopped following me yesterday, I thought I might as well talk about anything because, apparently, you don’t mind a little honesty.

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115 thoughts on “Hobbling Around the Issues: Homosexuality, Birth Control, etc. and Religion.

  1. I have no beliefs, probably stems from the fact my parents didn’t. I went to Sunday school for the colouring in though but then a kid with a massive oversized head joined and I left, that’s why I don’t like Giada DeLaurentis.

    Your views are great though and I wish more people would use their own interpretations and their own thought process rather than believing what the heads of organised religions tell them.

    They spend so much time hating on other people

  2. I think God likes our differences too. I love how religions most times do the first thing God told us not to “judge”. I believe in God, I am not religious simply because If god lets me be me who is anyone to change me.

  3. I’ve been brought up and been part of a couple of very strict religions, theologically speaking. The past couple of years I feel as though I’ve been going through an awakening, separating myself from the “religion” and trying to get more in touch with the “spiritual” which I fully believe are two separate things entirely. Religion is created by man and thus inherently flawed.

    • So true. I have been having what I call a “crisis of belief”. There just comes a time when you look around and see things how they truly are. It doesn’t mean you lose your faith, but losing your religion…yeah, that is where I have been.

  4. I’ve always sort of felt that each religion had but one piece of the puzzle, instead of being the whole. And if we only would put all our pieces together – instead of claiming ours to be the whole – then we might finally realize what it’s all about.

    A naive theory maybe, but one that I feel will never be tested.

    • Wouldn’t that be awesome. I always wonder why churches arent just questions and answer sessions. The things that are hard to answer are probably the most important parts, but fear of being wrong seems to stop a lot of thoughtful discussions.

  5. God and religion are responsible for more bloodshed on this planet than anything else in history.
    If he needs me, he knows where to find me, Other than that, he’s on his own.

  6. I agree totally! I believe in God but whenever I am asked what religion I am I tick “Christian-Other” because I haven’t found any one religion that I agree with totally. Every religion has their own interpretation of the Bible. Most religions are hypocritical, they agree Jesus died on the cross for our sins; yet they condemn and judge other people. It says right in the Bible it is not up to us to judge others, “Let he without sin cast the first stone”. What happened to that?

    I have attended church but not often, I like a church where what you wear, what you drive, where you live or how much money you have doesn’t matter. I like a pastor who talks about how God works in our lives day to day in layman’s terms. A church with rocking music and people are open and friendly.

    Too many churches are like cults. If you want to succeed in business join a wealthy church just step over the homeless person sleeping in the doorway. They are “Christians” on Sunday but come Monday they’ll screw you blind on a business deal.

    I see God all around me every day and I have witnessed miracles; I don’t need a church to tell me there’s a God or what to believe.

    • I think most people that truly believe in God have some doubts as to religion’s purpose. It really is sad how many people are turned off of God because of the people who claim to know him. I believe. That doesn’t make me better or worse than anyone else. I don’t need to go to church. I don’t go to church. I used to go, and really, I need to publish this post to facebook because most of the people who are my “friends” there are from the church I used to go to. We might be able to get a little more debate going, but I just am so tired of everyone playing games with things that should be serious. Also taking too seriously things that shouldn’t matter, like what church you go to, or whether or not you even go. God is a whole lot bigger than the box people try to put him in.

      • Comment from my facebook:
        Labragoat? ;). Well i cant say i agree with everything but i dont disagree with everything either. I dont think God wants us to not love anyone based on their beliefs or lifestyles, however i dont think He expects us to encourage or support it either. I love people in my life who live a way I dont agree with whether that be homesexuality or a party life style or whatever…but as much as I still love them, i wont pretend to think its ok with God. But I would never tell them God doesnt love them because of it ya know what I mean? God is Love, but God also gave us a ‘rules to live by’ of what He expects and approves of. However sin is sin amd if i show hatred towards a group of people im no better than the sin im condemning

        • Alright. I don’t know how Theological we want to take this, but I wanted to ask some of the people who believe differently than I do just so that we could get another perspective.

          In response to this comment: I agree that God wants us to love eachother regardless. I guess my next question would be, who is making the rules as to what we support or encourage? I don’t know if loving people unconditionally is supporting or encouraging them. I think it is not unsupporting or condeming their lifestyle either. I just feel like God, when he looks at us he just sees broken and hurting people everywhere. He also sees joy and happiness everywhere. If you believe the Bible, you might feel like God is for or against certain things, but what about those who don’t believe the Bible? What about those who pick and choose which Biblical standards to follow? Not to mention the interaction between the old and new testaments. I agree with the last sentence, to the extent of we all have things in our lives that may or may not be wrong, but I feel like God cares about the person more than anything in their lives. I think that we each can and should have our own points of view, and I think it is wonderful to talk about them, as long as we don’t try to force it on others.

          If you are uncomfortable with this conversation, see previous post, or just wait until tomorrow. I will most likely return to my normal smartass self.

      • Another facebook response:

        could write my own blog on the topics you touched on..all huge..bottom line i don’t believe in “religion” i believe in JESUS of Nazareth, God the Father and the Holy Spirit, I beleive that the Holy Bible covers it all, God made a perfect world, allowed people to make choices, and even before the Garden He had a plan of Redemption. God Hates Sin and brokenness, He LOVES us ALL so much that he Sent Jesus to die for All. took All our “SIN” on himself. we have to accept that truth to get the prize, communion w/ him. We are all sinner’s we all fall short, etc. I don’t hate any one who is not living the perfect plan God has for sexuallity, cause i don’t know anyone who is. married, straight gay or otherwise, (you didn’t mention the pedifile, rapist, porn addict etc.) we have all have lusted, committed adultry, even if only in thot and not actual deed, we have prostituded the holy temple our body for many pleasures of the land sexual and other wise… dog & goat? no comment. birth control, manmade or God made…if we didn’t practice murder, abortion and birht control of other forms, stayed married to one person for life etc. I believe we we would all be better off, of course that would fall in line with God’s plan too. this just off the cuff, sis. but i will rest here i think enuff said

        • A lot of this comment I have a similar response to as the other facebook comment. Same questions on defining what is wrong. I think that as far as the birth control issue, honestly, there are a lot of logistical prolems that would be better if we followed Biblical rules on this. I guess I still have the same, “which rules to follow” question. Not to mention all the polygamy, etc in the Bible.

          Can I get really honest for a moment? I am really tired of a lot of the stuff going on in my real life right now. A lot of the issues are in my head, but they seem to be confirmed by those around me. This may be a little out of line, but sometimes I feel better loved and understood by people here than I do by people outside of the blog world. I am sure that some of this is my fault, I should probably make more attempts to reach out and connect with others, but…I don’t know…it’s complicated. Anyway, I just want to say thanks to all of you who are kind of going with me in some form as I work through this stuff. The post I wrote yesterday was more of a vent, and the post today is more of a contemplative thing, but I know that neither of them are the way I would prefer to be on my blog. I usually just enjoy writing humor, and stuff like that, but I just am trying to figure some of these issues out. Anyway…sorry, thanks, I love you?

          I do need to say that I really appreciate the Facebook people who have shared. This is a topic that makes a lot of people really uncomfortable, and to offer an opposing viewpoint takes guts…and love for me too. So sorry, thanks, and I love you to them as well.

          • wow, sis sounds like you are having a hard time, life can get really tough and honestly sometimes i feel like the real people in my life just don’t see me or don’t care. it’s really when i get to that place that i feel sorry for myself. and i have to reach up and reach out. I am not saying this is where you are, but what i have experienced. I have also had to have a few crisis’ of belief, to really nail down and know what i beleive. there are a lot of reasons i believe God is who the bible says he is, and i think if i never doubted i would not have come to the conclusions i have. sometimes i think we have to wrestle w/ God to get to the truth. I wish i could say everyone should just live and let live, but honestly there are laws in nature, laws of the land and laws of God. if each one of us just makes up our own rules to do what we want or feel we have chaos…and more often than not i see the world around me is headed there.

            So if God truly is love, and we truly strive to love other’s as we love our selves, well we have to ask, do i love me? as God loves me? do i love others? my goal everyday is to love well everyone around me, to put others first if you will, i fail miserably frequently but don’t quit trying, What kind of world would it be if we all just tried….

          • Thanks. It is a weird time. I just have been thinking too much, I think. There is also something about the blog world that I find more genuine than some things in the world outside. I would have thought it would be the other way around, and I don’t think it is about you or my other real life friends as much as it is about what is going on in my heart, in my head.

            I was just telling a blog friend that it just feels like this picture of God that I had in my mind, is being tilted and some things are falling off, while others are staying the same.The underlying structure is the same, but I am seeing a different picture.

            Anyway, I am also hormonal, and sleep-deprived, so that might be a factor. 😉 Thank you for caring, and maybe we can get together sometime and talk a little more. I am not ready for much more talk about this right now. This conversation has worn me out. I am about to take a pill and go to bed. Love you!

        • Interesting post. I think that when we attach a gender to god, male for female, when then begin to personalize, humanize and minimize whatever IT is. When it is a He, or a She, I think we tend to get to thinking that He, or She is like us.That we can determine what ‘they’ want, think, feel and why they do. Hence religion. I tend to think of god as a force that expands in a ‘good orderly direction.’ What IT is that animates it all, what force is behind it, I know not, nor do I need to know and I sure as hell cannot determine what is right or wrong for another.

          • Can I be authentic with you, since that is what your blog name is all about? 😉 Right now I don’t know exactly what I believe about God, other than I believe there is one. I read the book “The Shack” and I am kind of liking that God. I just don’t know, I’ve been taught a lot of things about God, and I am at what I am describing as a crisis of belief. I just know God is real. Everything else is up for grabs. I’m also hormonal, so overly dramatic at the moment.

            • I can relate to your crisis. I went through one myself around GOD. I am happy to report that I am out the other side and at peace. I did alot of reading and contemplating. I talked with wise and open-minded people from many different walks. Once I came to terms with that the truth is for me, it was much easier for me in regards to what other peoples truths are.Even if I find what they believe unloving and judgmental.

              • That makes sense. Right now I am not as concerned with exactly what everyone else believes, as just trying to decide what I do. It is a strange feeling, but I think it will all work out. It feels necessary too.

  7. I’m here because you asked. =) I am happy to say I’m one of those people who grew up with you in church and a Christian school. We were there because our parents were doing what they believed to be the absolute best for us. I’m thankful for that.
    You posted about religion and summed it up pretty well. So many people – in this country especially – are fed up with organized religion. You may remember way back in Sunday School that our church made a distinction between religion and faith. So many times, religion starts with the best of intentions and ends up being an empty, mindless routine that feeds into this mindset that “I’m ok and possibly better than you because I follow a set of rules.” Faith in the God of the Bible, on the other hand, is a genuine belief that fundamentally changes the heart and mind and is proved by the words and actions of the faithful. Does that mean they’re perfect? No. Far from it. And the truly faithful will be the first to admit it. Now, admitting their own sin doesn’t mean they’re less qualified to comment on the sins of others. In fact, if they’re in the Bible daily, they will see the root problems in themselves and others more clearly. And if they’re truly loving the people around them, they’ll lead them to the truth in Scripture to be set free from those sins.
    You spoke about God being love and He definitely is that, more perfectly than you or I could ever imagine. He is also holy. A holy God cannot love, or approve of, or in any way condone sin. God is absolutely big enough to speak to us in nature, but chose to speak to us more clearly in the words of the Bible. Both the Bible and nature itself speak against homosexuality. God condemns it, but He never tells us it’s okay to hate gay people. Homosexuality is a sin like any other sin and – good news – is forgivable, just like all other sin.
    You’re right, different religions do interpret God in different ways. Some religions reject Him altogether. This is why it’s important to base your beliefs squarely on God’s letter to us and to find a church that does the same. I also find beauty in diversity. God created such a variety in human beings, topography, climates, scenery, flora and fauna – and then gave us the eyes to take it all in and the mind to marvel at it! Diversity is wonderful! But there is only one true God, and only one acceptable path to Heaven.
    I think the discussion on birth control may have been a bit of a rabbit trail. I do have some opinions on it and if you really want to know, I’ll share them with you. Perhaps privately. ; )
    I’m sorry you’re hurting, Becky. If there’s anything I can do for you through the cyber world, let me know! I’ll be praying for you in the meantime.

    • Thanks for coming and commenting. I remember a lot of our school, but I’ve got to admit that a lot has been forgotten too. I can’t decide if I am actually hurting or not. I don’t doubt God’s existence, but honestly, pretty much everything else is in question right now. It feels like something that I need to just work through, and I feel like I am doing that. I do believe that there are a lot of things that God wants us to just listen to him about. Maybe to rant and rave about. There is some stuff that I have been taught that is not lining up with my concept of God. There is also a lot of stuff that I see in “Christians” that I don’t like, and I don’t think that pretending to agree with that is the answer. There might be some things that I change my mind on, but right now, I just feel like God wants me to love…no questions asked. I think that is what he does, and although I understand a lot of theological arguments, I’m not going to buy into any of them right now. I kind of feel like this is between me and God, in a way, but I also feel like I need to hear how other people feel about this too. I just am really tired of the judgement and hypocrisy I see in a lot of so-called Christians.

      I really do appreciate you coming by and sharing your belief on this topic. It takes courage and a lot of self-reflection to really step out and say what you feel, and I couldn’t appreciate the time and thought that you have taken with this more.

  8. You know you are more than welcome to email me anytime, right? 🙂 So here we go:

    1) Yes, you’re right. It’s ALL about love. As an example, Jesus was the one who was always with the “undesirables.” In those days, a lot of those folks were tax collectors. And he broke bread with them all. You can’t teach if you don’t get close enough to do so.

    2) See above. 🙂 The bottom line- love the sinner; not the sin. We are all sinners; all sin is equal (unless you are Catholic, of course). It’s important to know where God stands and then use that information as He is working through us.

    3) I believe in religion; I don’t believe in big-box churchy stuff where a leader becomes all important. That, imo, is making that mane/woman into an idol, and hello, that’s just wrong. When we listen more to what man (woman) says more than the word of God (Bible), it can’t come as any surprise when we end up more in the world than we should.

    4) The bottom line is this: it’s about relationship. Yep, that’s what it all boils down to. God wants us to have a relationship with Him; He wants our obedience.

    And the thing is, I don’t think we *have* to go to church. Without getting all sing-songy, the church really isn’t a building- the church is you; it’s me; it’s the body of believes. The point, imo, is to *worship* and that doesn’t mean you have to be in a specific building to do it.

    I have never known a church to say, “Don’t worry about coming- stay home and worship!” For most, their bottom line is about, well, their bottom line. If there are no parishioners, there are no tithes to support the staff or the building. I’m pretty sure God isn’t going to send me to hell if I don’t tithe to a church but do donate to homeless shelters and other faith-based community causes. There is more than a single way to worship……….

    • I finally got around to being able to put my two cents into this discussion. What it boils down to is this, if homosexual behavior can be readily found in nature, regardless of what your own personal religious beliefs are, then one would have to question whether or not humans may be subject to the same type of behavior… Not out of choice, but as a result of the inner workings of their own biological and emotional drives. Whether or not nature is created by God, is irrelevant to the actual discussion itself, at least in this case. Because to be realistic, even if we believe God has said certain things by way of a collection of books that have been compiled through the ages, the compilation itself was done by men. God created the laws of nature, and nature does not make mistakes, especially if you think the creator himself is infallible. I realize that this might make some people angry, but that’s one of the reasons I call myself the perverted sage, not because I am perverse necessarily in the common sense of the word, but I enjoy turning things on their head in order to force people to look at them more closely. I’m not saying that I’m right and you’re wrong, but I’d rather make up my mind for myself rather than simply believe what I’ve been told my entire life. I know many people leaving a homosexual “lifestyle” that are better people than the products of religious fervor that I’ve encountered myself.

      • Well said Sage. I’m just catching up with these comments, so I haven’t responded to all of them yet, but I agree, especially about the real people. I think you might understand this pretty well, but I am really getting tired of the double standard that people in real life have regarding people with disabilities. I will try to come back and explain a little more, but I want to go see the rest of the comments first.

      • I hope you understand, but I don’t think I can talk about this topic any more tonight. It is wearing me out. Maybe another day, but really I think I’ve said about all I can say about it in these comments.

      • What about free will? People sin- afaik, animals and other living things don’t have consciences, and are therefore, unable to sin. People also have the choice to repent and ‘sin no more,’ for what that’s worth.

        As much as we look at the world, when it comes to people and sinning, there will always be those that remind that God doesn’t lead a person to sin; satan does.

        Especially in the OT, we see example after example of God using wicked people (like kings, for example) to dole out punishment, sometimes, even to His own people.

        I’ve personally made the same point about how the books of the Bible were canonized, in that the fixed canon came under order/direction of Constantine, who wanted a cohesive book, in a nutshell. And so they sat in a room and waded and picked through which books they’d put in, and which books they’d leave out. I’ve had it argued to me that while Constantine orchestrated the event, the men were chosen by God and there you have it.

        There are infinitely more interesting books outside of the traditional Protestant canon [the Catholic Church has more books in its OT; neither have the same number of books as what are found in the Ethiopian Bible, and some of those are very interesting books, like the Book of Enoch (often considered both apocryphal and pseudepigraphacal) {not the Secrets of Enoch, which is a modern book} and the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, (pseudepigraphacal) etc etc] that make for seome intriguing reading. I always wondered what the list was exactly that Jesus was taught at the synagogue as part of his instruction……….

        I absolutely agree with your last statement; the only thing I’d add would be that fortunately, neither of those are what actually counts anyhow…………….

        • I have never found anyone who “repented and sinned no more”. According to the Biblical definition of sin at least.

          I think that a lot of people use Satan as an argument to either justify themselves, or to condemn others. I am not against the idea of Satan. The thing with free will is that if we are talking about a creator God, then we say, okay, God created man, and man can choose whether or not to follow God. I agree with everything this far, kind of. I just think that you can not tell everyone this is how you follow God. Especially if they don’t believe God. I am just saying, God is big enough to show people himself and how he wants them to live their lives, and I think that basically he did. We intrinsically know right from wrong. All I am suggesting is that homosexuality in my mind can be likened to a lot of forms of sexuality. People used to think it was wrong to give oral sex. People used to think masturbation was evil. I am just saying it’s not. There is nothing about either of those things that is wrong. Those things were just socially wrong. Society deemed them evil, and people accepted them as such. Yet, beyond society’s control. You can not tell me everyone stopped masturbating.

          Sorry for getting graphic here, but we are talking about things of a sexual nature. My point is that inside of each of us is a desire to have our sexual needs met. Trying to decide how everyone else should meet those needs seems…like it shouldn’t be up to us. If you feel like it is wrong to masturbate, then don’t do it. If you think oral sex is wrong, don’t do that either. If you think homosexuality is wrong then it is…for you. I just don’t believe that I can or should choose what is wrong for other people, and I definitely don’t think that I should sit around or go door to door trying to make other people think like I do.

          A friend of mine has a t-shirt pic on her website. I’m pretty sure she wouldn’t mind me sharing it, so here it is: http://llwproductions.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/religion-is-like-a-penis-t-shirt_square-multiple-fonts.jpg

          That might show up weird, but anyway, I think it is a good point to make. As far as my last statement, it actually counts for me, and right now, that is who I need to be dealing with.

          • Ahhhh… backtracking the posts for the day. So this is where you put the link. Very appropriate. I do just want to add, though, that the one reason I like this saying so much really has nothing to do with being an atheist. It is more so to express and support people’s religious beliefs, but also to respect the fact that others believe differently. Do what you want that make you happy. I was married to a Catholic and joined him to church as he loved his religion. But, like you Hobs, I just do not want people forcing their beliefs on me, nor should they do so to others.

          • Because we are all sinners, well, we’re going to sin. 😆 It’s what we do next that’s important. There are some things that I do think people can repent and not continue to engage in- whether it’s sinning in anger or extramarital sex- I think there is a pretty decent list of things (like murder, for example, or stealing, etc etc) that people can be sorry about, and then stop doing.

            I was just talking about this today- people (that I actually know) who were atheists with laundry lists of bad habits (drugs, alcohol) who could not kick it until God got involved. I do think atheists can see God in action; it’s a choice of whether or not they want to believe.

            And here, still, at the very bottom line, I completely believe that it’s about relationship. I 100% agree that there is not a “formula” for belief- you can follow ‘the rule,’ you can go to church every week (sorry about that word again) and you can live a clean life and still not ‘get it’ (God, that is)

            At the end of the day, I think the majority of us are just trying to do the best that we can. What parents teach their children about all of it should be left to the parents, imo, and every option for real choice should be made available.

            If you feel you are right with God, that’s all that matters, imo. There is a huge difference (imo) between going door to door even (in which case people can open the door or not) and making information available as opposed to telling someone they are going to hell if they don’t put in their hour at church every week. I’ve known a number of people who used that guilt trip (actually, relatives on to my mil when her mother died) on others to coerce and to guilt, and it totally steams me, beacause that’s not what God is all about………..

            Fwiw, I think you are spot on. 🙂

            • Thanks TikkTok, and I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I definitely know the relationship part is completely true, and I do feel okay with God. He is just teaching me some things now. Doing the best we each can, is pretty important. Anyway, this whole topic has worn me out a bit, so I am going to try to think of something lighter to post today, or nothing at all. Thanks for the great discussion.

    • I understand what you are saying, and I kind of want to keep this discussion open to the public because I feel like we will all learn the most about eachother this way.

      How to start…okay, I went to a tiny Christian school as a child. I was then homeschooled for a couple years, and then I went to a public school. I went to a Baptist college. I led Bible study in my church for a while. My point is, I understand the religious arguments. I have read books on the various denominations, so I understand a lot of that as well.

      Anyway, I guess my point is that I don’t know where God stands on everything. I am not going to just think I do because I have studied him, or the Bible, or anything else. God doesn’t spell everything out, or we could all read the Bible and come to the exact same conclusions.

      I agree with you that it is all about relationship, and if it is, I am certainly not going to decide how someone else’s relationship with God is by something that is or is not in their lives. I care about my relationship with God, which is what I described in the actual post. I know God is real. He speaks to me how he wants to, and if he choses to speak to someone else in whichever way he wants to, then he will, but I am not going to try to make people change before I believe they can know God. My God is a whole lot bigger than that.

      Anyway, as far as the church stuff…this is really hard to even describe right now, but I am not liking even the word “church”, but your point that you don’t have to go to one to believe, is well said.

      Bottom line, this post might have brought all of you into a world that is mostly inside my head. I have some things that I am just starting to realize definitively, and sometimes I just like to share those. Ultimitely, each of us is going to make our own decisions as to how and whether we believe in God, but I am just saying that I’m leaving everything else up to God. I think that he wants me to love everyone who he has put in my life, and it is unconditional, and not even, “I am going to love them and hope one day they will see that what they are doing is wrong” way. I think it was El Guapo who said that more harm has been done in God’s name than in any other, and I am just saying that I don’t want anything to do with that. That is not the God I believe in, that people are judging others based upon.
      I hope that makes sense. I feel like I started rambling, but then again, I have a tendency to do that.

      • Nope. You aren’t rambling at all. 😀 The thing with organized religion is that it’s all someone else’s perspective, who founded the church, what the church leaders believe, how they want to interpret, etc etc. I mean, since the Reformation there hasn’t been any shaking and baking of the same magnitude, but it’s all about what we (people) interpret.

        Some will say women have no place in ministry, yet we find the Gospel of Mary (whether or not a person believes it, it’s still an ancient text) and the Acts of Paul and Thecla………

        “Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord.” Romans 12:19

        The vengeance bit- there are sooooo many that really believe they are called by God to seek it. Unfortunate.

        I know we can’t insulate ourselves from the world completely, but the only thing I know to do is to live my life the way I think God wants me to, and leave the rest of it up to Him……………..

        PS- I had an aversion to the term “catholic” until I learned that using it that way means “universal.” 🙂 Interpretation is everything, and mine is the trump card where my actions are concerned. 😉 I may not be able to change anyone or anything like that, but I sure can pray for them, and as trite as that phrase can sound, too, I actually DO do a lot of that for others……… and it’s not my place to judge. {unless it’s my kids, when I have to deal with a mess they might leave behind, so they are fair game. :lol:}

        Because I can’t control or force anyone to think any certain thing, I just have to do the best I can with what I know, which is the same as what you’re doing, too. 🙂

        And ya, I’ve been working on a headache all afternoon. This kind of stuff is usually better in small bites that are easy (ier) to digest…… {{{{hugs}}}}

        • Thanks for understanding, and yeah, this conversation is wearing me out. I think that both of us seem to be saying that we live what we believe, and this post was just about letting other people know what I, not necessesarily they, should believe. I pray for people as I feel led to, or if I say I will. I prayed for Bats the other night. I just think that asking God to change how someone feels, unless it is for them to know they are valuable, is pretentious.

          Really, I think we agree on more areas than we disagree, and since we are both getting to our daily quota, I really appreciate you sharing how you feel and taking a stand for what you believe in. I also appreciate you wading with me through some of my own feelings about this. For some reason I think I am going to sleep well tonight. 😉 Thanks TikkTok.

          • I hope you do sleep well. 🙂 I agree that the most we can each do is live how we are compelled to live- it’s not my place to judge anyone. I don’t know what God’s got going on with every single person, and all I can do is what I can do. Because it’s a relationship, it’s always evolving- not a one of us is ever done growing and learning……….. 🙂

    • Sorry, I thought it was important. That might have been the “crazies” talking, but really, it happened. I was 7 or 8 and it has stayed with me forever. Now you can have that image too. 😉

  9. you know..at first I laughed at the dog humping goat,,and that you chose such a piece with deep philosophy and thought provoking sentiment and through a dog humping a goat… now, sfter the hour it took me to scroll down here… I ave decided it makes perfect sense… not the ..what you said about the …. ~sigh..;-)

    • It is a little overwhelming huh? The dog humping a goat is like the one thing that we got to just play around with. It has got to make sense in some way…

  10. I do not believe in a certain religion, but I do believe in God or a higher power. I believe God is all about love. He wants to love us & he wants us to love others. He also gave us free will, so we wouldn’t all be the exact same carbon copy. With our free will we can choose to believe how & what we want. I think as long as we think about doing our best, trying not to hurt anyone, trying to help others if we can then God will be happy with us in the end. IMHO.

  11. I’m of a mind that God is sufficiently complex compared to our limited abilities to perceive and understand, all religions could be correct. I explained my theory to an epistemologist friend of mine. To get an idea of what I’m talking about, put a TV in the middle of the room and seat people in front and behind it. The people in front will swear that they see all kinds of pretty pictures and the people behind just see wires. Both groups are absolutely correct but with completely different experiences. The physical world is sufficiently complex what things just outside or ability to perceive directly confound us, like the orbit of an electron… it takes a voyage of 720° to get back to the same spot on a two-dimensional representation of it’s orbit! If we cannot directly understand a simple round-the-block trip by an electron without an education in advanced maths and physics, how could we ever hope to have the smallest inkling of His nature?

    I believe in a “Deus ex machina” God, where He has no direct hand in the operation of the physical universe but, perhaps, can inspire people in the choices they make.

    • I love that all! I don’t know if you read any of the comments here, but this has just been something that just seems to be shifting all around me. There is definitely no way to comprehend God. As far as the operation of the physical universe, I think that God created the universe, and set the ball in motion. I think he knows where it is going, and I think that he can and does intervene in some situations, but regardless, the universe, time, everything we can understand is on a set path. There is no way we can see beyond our universe. He made it too big. I think that God wants us to see his hand, to admire his creation, and to just be who he made us to be. People say, “life is a journey”, and I think that is true in more ways than we could ever understand.

      • I personally believe you’ve put the cart before the horse… I think that God set balls in motion and the universe was the inevitable result. If he is truly omniscient and his intent was for a universe, the Earth, and Man (and whatever else is out there) to come to be, he could have created conditions that would result in creating the physical laws that caused the Big Bang, and everything that happened since then. This is why I feel that creationists who try to falsify evolution, the Big Bang, etc. have so little faith in their idea of God that they cannot imagine that He could have “created” the whole process.

        As dumb as a lot of the stuff I heard in various churches and other places of worship was, the one thing that makes the most sense to me (but who am I to say?) is that we were put here simply to take the journey, to love each other along the way, and to create a good “vibe” through our personal works.

      • “There is no way we can see beyond our universe. He made it too big.” Scientists have found this is probably truer than you think. Due to the expansion of space/time, galaxies on the ‘far end’ of the red-shifted spectrum may be receding “faster than light” (you’d have to understand ‘local’ vs. ‘galatic’ meanings). This does not mean they are going faster than light, but the combined speed over distance between ‘us’ and ‘them’ means their light will NEVER reach us and WE will never be able to detect them (using light gathering means; for all we know there is another ‘way’ to see, but mankind hasn’t discovered it yet).

        And I think the “purpose” of life, the “reason” is quite simple. Have fun. Live. Love. Hold hands. Being human . . . is probably one of the rarest things you can do in this universe, considering all the things there are…

  12. You are right I think. Definitely about the fact that God could have set the stuff in motion and the laws of nature, whether they include evolution, the big bang, or whatever could be the method he used. It is hard to comprehend infinity. This may sound strange, but when I think of God, I always think of pi…from math. Just the fact that so many years, computers, everything haven’t found any repetition seems to be a really great example of the fact that we can never really understand everything, with our limited minds. Everything uses a reference point in our world, and it is difficult to imagine anything without comparing it to something we know. Our vision is just so limited.

  13. This is so well put together and so well thought out, I actually have nothing to say in terms of opinions.

    I could not have said it better myself, nor could I find a post (or opinion) that I agree with stronger.

    Well don, Hobbler! I am proud of you! You have clarity granted by God himself only to a select few. The enlightenment is the openmindedness you possess and share. Congratulations! I am glad I read this and I can share it with others!

    • Thank you so much. It was hard to write in a lot of ways. It goes against a lot that I was taught, but I have to make my own decisions you know? There is just too much hate in the world. God wants me to love, that is all I know right now.

  14. Okay, this’ll probably be long – that OAA thing, LOL. (and a fondness for acronyms, apparently). But . . .
    I personally think I know God pretty good, especially after last year’s “events” in my life. And he’s just like us.

    Get this, Hobbler: you’re gonna love it:
    God has a DID kind of mind. Which explains a lot of those ‘aspects’ of him (the Hindu and early Egyptian religions). Or the “Trinity” for the Christian crowd – which makes REAL sense to me, given that ‘we’ have ‘3’ hosts and it seems most DID folks have 3 ‘personalities on top’ or aware at any given time. Or lets dip into the psychology thing with our handy-dandy OAA net and what do we find? The ego, the id, and what some have taken to calling ‘our soul’ – and then there’s the ‘body mind’ (that’s those regulatory and hormonal impulses, some inspired by our genetics, that people often get).

    This also explains a lot of the insanity that went on in our earlier days as ‘mankind’ – or in an evolutionary sense. If you ask me, God was behaving as a child some of the times; breaking his own rules and things – and “he’s” matured somewhat, or just doesn’t give a care. It’s like: “Okay, I set things in motion – whatta ya gonna do?” Or maybe caring, but not interfering too much. It’s a ‘free choice’ type of thing.

    Of course all this ignores the initial question: Is there a god at all? I kinda been leaning towards the notion that there’s a hell of a lot more than we’re seeing simply because of what scientists have proven: we can’t see a thing, not really. We assume that we know is basically all there is to know (enough to make up our minds about religion in some cases, apparently) because we don’t know how much we’re actually missing. But science is changing that vision: we now realize we don’t know (and maybe can’t know) a lot. LOL, you read my blog on that thing. So . . . the coin’s in the air, but thus far I’ve gone leaning more over to the spiritualist side, given that there’s too much we know we’re still missing.

    • Makes sense to me. Have you read “The Shack”? You might enjoy it. I thought it was a very interesting and possible concept of God. I agree that there is just too much that we don’t/can’t know. There is a God though. I know that inside and as a nature lover, you have probably known it too. I just don’t know what all that means.

      • What was it – “Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy”? Something like that . . . God wanted to experience what it’s like to be a human being, so he comes here . . . but it’s too easy. And he realizes as long as he knows he’s god, he can’t be like man. (after all, no religious or ‘am I going to live on’ misery and doubts if you’ve got the inside track, right?) So he decides to forget who he is . . . and now He’s wandering a derelict alcoholic bum in California living on the skids. . . because forgot who he is . . . ouch! LOL!

  15. Pingback: what is truth, or I can’t believe I’m writing this post!!! « BuddhaKat

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